Insulation
I started watching This Old House regularly about 5 years ago when I bought this place. One of the products they use consistently on the show is spray-in insulation – one common brand is Icynene. The idea of the product is that it installs quickly and does a great job insulating because it expands evenly into every nook and cranny. This is especially useful in older homes that may not have been built as tightly as they might be today.
So we used Icynene in the media room two years ago. The room is in the basement and has thick walls – we had it sprayed with Icynene and the entire process took about two hours. This was one of my few contractor experiences, and it went pretty smoothly. The media room does pretty well – although it does get cold in there in winter. The room has an electric wall heater that I only turn on when we go in to watch TV; typically it takes about 10 minutes before the room is nice and cozy. I always said we’d use Icynene again for the upstairs.
But recently we decided not to. Due to schedule and the complexity (or, perceived complexity) of coordinating a contractor, I decided – after much encouragement from my dad and Trissa – to just use fiberglass-roll insulation. I didn’t make this decision lightly, but I think it’s going to work out fine. Added benefits are 1) I can install it myself at my own pace, and 2) I can save a small chunk of change.
One concern I had is the heat loss calculation that went into our radiant floor system. Fortunately, it turns out that the r-value per inch of Icynene is very similar to fiberglass. The only difference comes from the fact that because Icynene is hard to install incorrectly (and fiberglass generally is) you may lose a bit due to technique and not being able to insulate those nooks and crannies that the Icynene would expand into.
My other concern was the plain headache of installing itchy dusty fiberglass – it’s not generally much fun. I felt better about this when I discovered “ComfortTherm” which is a type of Johns Manville-brand insulation (the brand carried by the Home Deposit). This stuff comes on a roll, but instead of being faced with paper (or, unfaced), it basically comes in a long plastic sheath. Think thin garbage-bag wrapper. Of course they still recommend wearing gloves, a mask, and glasses, but in my experience sleeves are optional. And I didn’t really wear gloves or a mask for most of the installation – only when I had to cut special pieces for strange cavities.
In any event, the stuff installs pretty easily with a utility knife and a staple gun. Over the last two weekends I installed R-13 in the walls and R-25 in the ceiling (remember, radiant heating up there) of the living and dining rooms. I was pretty anal about doing a nice neat job. With fiberglass, over compressing or under-cutting will dramatically reduce its effectiveness. I still need to do the kitchen but am waiting on some final electrical work that needs to happen there, hopefully next weekend.
So, we’re getting closer and closer to drywall. Stay tuned – Trissa and the rest of the world are rooting for me to call a contractor for that one. I just don’t know…
10 Comments
mindy·March 21, 2006
Whooo - you’re almost there!! Drywall is really not that hard to install. We had good luck with it in the kitchen. You just need the right tools and some practice with your feathering technique.
I definitely think you could handle it.
Trissa will probably kill me for saying that - she probably wants you to have a nice relaxing break!
Nick·March 21, 2006
Well, I’ve done plenty of drywall. The question is whether I’m anxious do do 40 sheets worth - carrying it all up the 33 steps to the house. And then there’s the mudding and taping, which I really am not a pro at.
Nancy·March 21, 2006
Contract it out!
Derek·March 21, 2006
We used a product called Roxul in our basement, it’s denser than fibreglass, I think it’s rockwool. It’s R14 instead of R13, and it doesn’t allow as much air infiltration. Spray foam sure would have been nice though too. Then you don’t need a vapour barrier. I can’t wait to see the drywall go up.
Trissa·March 21, 2006
For me it’s a time it takes to do it well. We’ve done drywall for the shop ceiling (I’m not going to hold anymore sheets of drywall on my back on top of the ladder while Nick attaches it to the ceiling) and we did the media room and upstairs bath. There’s definitely an art to it and we want a smooth finish to resemble plaster, so we won’t be adding any texture to hide any imperfections. If a crew can come in a complete the job in a couple of days, it’s definitely worth it to me- I honestly think it would take at least a couple of months for us to do. I think that time will be better spent on the finishing techniques and building the rest of the kitchen cabinets. So my job while Nick is out of town this week is to schedule a couple of estimates for the drywall, hopefully they’ll go better than the estimates that Chicago Two Flat has gotten!
Greg·March 21, 2006
I did 4 rooms of drywall in my last house by myself. It seems to take a long time, and if you’re not good at it (like me) there is more sanding involved meaning more mess. After 4 rooms those metal Lustron Homes don’t seem like such a bad idea. :-)
Was the spray-in stuff a real big jump in cost?
Keith·March 21, 2006
I’d be interested to know the expected cost difference between icynene and fiberglass as well. I’m getting ready to start a renovation of the basement of my 1914 house and have been thinking of using icynene for all of the reasons you state. However, I haven’t yet gotten to the estimate stage.
By the way, I would DEFINITELY contract out the drywall.
Derek·March 21, 2006
The professional drywallers have all the tools, so it’s so much faster and easier. You can rent a drywall lift that makes it easier to hang. I’d say that would take me at least 2 months.
Jocelyn·March 22, 2006
Yes we’re being roasted over an open spit by the quote devils here… I hope your are more reasonable for sure!
We used fiberglass for our kitchen, bath, and entry and it seems fine. What made the biggest difference in our place with drafts and chill were the new windows. But it sure feels good to put something back to better than it ever was before. It is definitely irritating to work with. I’d get itchy and sneeze ALOT when I did it. It was one of my jobs because it’s detail-oriented and doesn’t involce heavy lifting or power tools, which I am less adept with.
We drywalled our kitchen if you remember and it was hellish work- we soundproofed it too, which took half a day. I am not too keen on drywalling big rooms, yours sounds pretty big. I wouldn’t blame you one bit for letting someone else do that job.
Sasha·March 30, 2006
On the drywall issue, I’ve never thought it was that much work - it seems like one of the easiest tasks, but maybe I don’t have the “looks like plaster” standards. ;-)
On the whole insulation thing, I have to say that fiberglass scares me. It’s like asbestos 30 years ago. And spraying it into a wall just makes me think of all the small glass fibers that get loose, get into the air, fall out years later and get in my lungs. OTOH, I had no issues doing my own asbestos abatement.